Aug 8, 2022
Charity Wakefield’s passion for the natural world shone through when we caught up at her local green space. I met the actor, environmentalist and Woodland Trust ambassador at Peckham Rye Park to talk about trees, wildlife and acting.
Charity explains how nature has made her happy since the tree-climbing, den-building days of her childhood. She is concerned that people have lost their connection with the environment, but is hopeful for the future and encourages us to recognise that we can all make a difference. She believes in ‘people power’. We also talk eco-friendly fashion, filming comedy-drama The Great and climbing a tree to learn her lines in Lewisham!
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Transcript
You are listening to Woodland Walks, a podcast for the Woodland
Trust, presented by Adam Shaw. We protect and plant trees for
people to enjoy, to fight climate change and to help wildlife
thrive.
Adam: Charity Wakefield is an actor, environmentalist and Woodland
Trust ambassador. She starred in BBC One’s production of Rapunzel,
Constance in The Three Musketeers at the Bristol Old Vic, and
Elaine in the Graduate at the New Vic. She had a lead role as
Marianne Dashwood in Jane Austen’s Sense and Sensibility and has
been in Doctor Who, the Halcyon, Bounty Hunters, amongst other
productions. And she’s now starring in the TV series, The Great
about Catherine the Great.
Well, I met her at her local park to talk about acting and the
importance of the natural world.
Charity: So now we are at Peckham Ride Park, which has been my
local park for most of my time in London. I now have a baby so
there’s lots of kinds of mother and baby groups around the area. I
have lots of friends here still.
Adam: Are you a country girl or did you grow up in the city,
or?
Charity: Erm, I, I never thought of myself as a country girl. I did
grow up though in and around East Sussex. I used to live in a
couple of different places down there. We moved a bit as a kid.
Adam: Sorry, why don’t you, you grew up in the country, why did you
not think of yourself as a…
Charity: I don’t know
Adam: You know you thought of yourself as you felt your inner urban
woman early on?
Charity: I just don’t think I grew up with any sense of identity if
I’m honest, because I also live a little bit in Spain when I was
very small. And like I said we moved around quite a lot.
So actually I’m an actress and I trained at drama school and going
to drama school at the time of going to university for most people
if you do that, that was the first time I really had this interest
to work out where I was from, or you know you kind of try to
identify yourself by telling each other, and also drama school, in
particular, you’re looking at different kind of life experiences
and personality traits, because it’s material for you, right? So,
you start kind of realising ‘oh I that this background or that
background’.
Yeah, for me, being from the countryside just meant desperate
driving as soon as I can. I could drive about a week after my
birthday because I had secret driving lessons with friends and my
dad and stuff. Yeah, I guess I have always loved the countryside
and I sort of you know had friends you know the family were farmers
and we used to go and make camps in the woods.
Adam: Well, that’s good, and talking of woods we seem to be, what’s
down there? That’s a very wooded area, shall we go, you lead on,
but shall we go down there? Or
Charity: This is the Common, this is Peckham Ride Common, and erm I
think it was, has been around for at least a couple of hundred
years and it’s a really big open space with some really huge trees
in the middle. They’re probably like, lots of them are London
planes and oak trees, and I think this section we’re about to walk
into was actually sort of closed off at the beginning I think it
was a big common and this was owned by an estate. A sort of family
estate and then opened a bit later which is why as you can see it
is much more formal
Adam: I was going to say, so we are leaving a sort of really a very
large green area with the Shard poking its head above the trees, so
your urban environment, but walking into this much more formal
sculptured…
Charity: And actually you can walk the whole perimeter of this, and
this is quite close to the road here but the other side is as you
can see really big open and free, so it must have been quite weird
at sort of the end of the 1800s, I suppose that kind of bridge
between a really rich family that owned this huge part of the park
in the middle, so this is yeah, now we are under these beautiful
red-leaved trees, you probably know what that tree is? [Laugh]
Adam: No, no, no, no, let’s not embarrass each other by [Laugh]
Charity: [Laugh] Okay no tree testing
Adam: No tree testing [Laugh]
Charity: Okay
Adam: Well, this is, this is beautiful, so let’s… there’s a lovely,
lovely bench with a dedication actually, some flowers connected to
that. So why don’t we have a sit down here and just have a
chat?
So, first of all, you mentioned you went to drama school, what
drama school was it?
Charity: I went to the Oxford School of Drama, which was the
smallest, most obscure place I could have probably have found
[Laugh] but it probably was the best place for me actually. It’s
funny, sometimes what’s for you won’t pass you as they say, erm a
tiny drama school in the middle of the north of Oxfordshire. Acting
is really hard and part of it is the marathon of it and the
difficulties of getting jobs and everybody says this but failing
continually and feeling like you haven’t actually achieved things
perfectly. In the theatre that means doing a show and there being
some moments during the night where you think ‘uh that didn’t work
out right’ and you have to be that kind of person that is
interested in those kinds of faults and failures and wants to try
different things and fix things and part of gaining that resilience
is what I think drama school is all about.
Adam: I mean apart from, I do want to talk to you more about your
acting, but apart from that you do have what I see as quite a close
connection to nature, reading a lot of your social media and
learning about your activities, so tell me a bit about that, what
is it? What is that connection and why do you feel it?
Charity: I think growing up, albeit in a kind of little village or
a town, but kind of in the countryside it was quite… it was a bit
freer back then, I think it was different days, the early 80s.
being allowed to sort of wander off, with friends and go into kind
of woodlands and stuff. I think, I just feel very happy when I am
in nature and I am interested in the differences, everything is
growing and changing all the time. And it was interesting I went to
LA once, and I thought this is so strange to me because the seasons
aren’t so apparent. Particularly when you live in the countryside
your so kind of affected by those changes and erm I really love
animals and I love knowing the circle of life, like where those
animals came from, how they’re are fed, what they do naturally, and
then getting older you start to understand a bit more about the
history and human history and how we have you know got to where we
are today the kind of beginnings of farming and how society
functions and unfortunately we are at a point now where we’ve
outgrown ourselves, and how do we kind of pair that back? How do we
get back?
Adam: When you say we’ve outgrown ourselves what do you mean?
Charity: I think humans have outgrown ourselves in a sense I
think
Adam: In what sense?
Charity: In the sense that we’ve lost track I think of the essence
of how you, I think yeah, we’ve lost track of how life is
interconnected with nature. Because we’re pushing technology
further and further and some people are saying the answer is to
eventually get into space rockets and go and start a new community
on Mars and to me that’s mad because I feel like we have everything
that we need on this planet. And we just need to reconnect
everything.
Adam: Why do you think that disconnection has happened then
Charity: Yeah well, I think it’s a big question. Because I think it
happens on so many levels. I think that there is a disconnect with
people who are very very fortunate and have a hell of a lot of
money, and in some ways don’t notice the effect that their
companies or their personal lives might be having on the
environment because they are so loaded that they get given their
food people and they probably never see plastic packaging to know
that it exists because they are just delivered things
Adam: Right
Charity: and they don’t really realise the impact that they’re
having, they’re living kind of you know the high life
Adam: Sure, do you think we’re all living that sort of life?
Charity: No, I don’t
Adam: Or it’s just the 1%, or the quarter of the 1%?
Charity: No, I don’t, I think there are lots of people that are the
absolute opposite. They haven’t got the time, the money and the
education to be able to do anything about it even if they did
notice that there is an issue.
Adam: And yet it is curious that isn’t it, because and yet David
Attenborough the national hero, his television programmes are all
watched, and you know
Charity: But they’re not watched by everybody.
Adam: They’re not watched by everybody but there seems… I mean I
get the feeling that you know there’s this weird thing where
everybody’s talking about the environment and very concerned about
it, even if perhaps if we’re not changing our lifestyle, but my, my
sort of view is that people do get it even if they’re not changing
their behaviour. You, you feel differently, I think.
Charity: I think that there’s, I think there’s lots of people on
those both extremes that don’t get it at all and I also see lots
and lots of people living on the poverty line, particularly where I
live in the Borough of Lewisham, who are, and I know some people
are working crazy hours and don’t have time to think about it.
About any kind of impact, and certainly don’t have time to do
complicated recycling or and they don’t have the budget to be able
to shop in a kind of, what we would probably on our middle-class
wage perceive as a kind of eco conscious way. And because what’s
difficult is even if you do do that it’s very hard to sort of
balance what is the best consumer choice to make. As we all know,
so we’re in a difficult way, but what I do believe is that I
believe in people power, and I as you say David Attenborough has
made a huge impact and it is much more in the mainstream, hugely so
in the mainstream in the last couple of year, and I do think its
down to kind of lockdown and people staying at home and having the
chance to stop and think and reconnect with their immediate
environment but whether that’s in a high-rise flat looking out
listening to the lack of airplanes, being able to hear nature more,
or somebody that’s got, you know, fifty acres and has decided to
buy a diamond Jubilee woodland for the Woodland Trust, you know,
that there, I think we are kind of you united as we are the people
who had a chance to stop and listen and look and then it’s about
people that are in positions of power and money to give us a
direction to go in. to give us a positive idea
Adam: So, apart from being intellectually being engaged with this,
you’re worried about it, you’re clearly worried about it, you do a
lot of things.
Charity: mmm
Adam: actually, so tell me about the lots of things you do
Charity: err well I really love… I’ve always…So, fashion is a part
of my job in the sense that I have to wear lots of different
clothes, and um for my work
Adam: well then you were recently in The Great
Charity: That’s right so I do a TV show, period TV show, and so
I
Adam: So, there’s lots of costumes
Charity: there’s lots of costumes, I don’t really have control over
where those costumes are made and bought, but sometimes I do so,
for example, if I’m producing a film or if I’m in a low-budget
theatre production, I might provide my own clothes for that theatre
production, and if producing then I am certainly in charge of
deciding where we can get clothes, so for example, we go to charity
shops and second-hand places because there is so much stuff in the
world already. And I try to do that in my personal life.
Adam: But do you have a label, a fashion label?
Charity: No, nothing like that no
Adam: But you, but you talk a lot about conscientious fashion on
social media
Charity: Yeh, I do because erm, …. Erm I am looking for the word,
influencers! And stuff like that because I get approached for
things like that and so I’m very conscious that If I am going to be
in front of any kind of camera people are going to make a judgment
or think that might be a good idea to wear, so I try to conscious
about what I’m wearing if in the public in any way. And really
that’s just an extension of my real life, I’ve always shopped in
charity shops, when I was growing up that was because we didn’t
have any money, so my clothes were given to me by other families,
or when I first started to work, which was around fourteen, I
worked in a strawberry farm – that was my first job! And my second
job was in another strawberry farm, picking strawberries and my
third job was the same strawberry farm but in the grocery shop.
Adam: Okay, you got promoted!
Charity: Promoted
Adam: Promoted out of the fields!
Charity: Absolutely, literally up the hill
Adam: and
Charity: I’ve become extremely aware of how difficult it is to
manage woodland, and I didn’t even know that as a concept, I just
thought that big areas or parkland or woodland or farmland, I had
not concept really of how that was looked after, and that’s one
thing that I think is I don’t know, its both inspired me and made
me realise what a huge challenge it is to be able to reforest large
areas and the other fact of everything being so slow – trees
reaching their maturity at such a slow rate – and that being a very
difficult kind of challenge to sort of ask people to become
involved with because I think when you’re asking people to you know
kind of sympathise with a charity or donate money to a charity in
some ways its more difficult to say this is an extremely slow
process but we need your help urgently… so it has been interesting
to learn about that side of things. And I’ve also been deeply
shocked and saddened about how many of our ancient woodlands and
hedgerows and trees that are still being cut down in this country,
partly for huge roadways but partly for new buildings and farmland
and that does feel quite urgent to me. But yeah I’ve learnt a lot.
I think one of my favourite things has been seeing the tree
listening which I put on my Instagram if anyone wants to have a
look
Adam: So, tell me about tree listening.
Charity: so, there’s a way to hear the water being filtered up and
down trees and it’s the most beautiful sound and to me, it’s a
sound that I could go to sleep to. I keep thinking, I must try and
find if there’s a recording online that I can grab and put on my
phone to listen to at night-time. And it gives you that sense of
the tree being alive in the here and now. Trees grow so slowly it’s
sometimes quite difficult to think if the as, as kind of, living in
the same time zone as us. So, hearing that, that’s a very present
sound really, I don’t know, it makes you… it makes you want to hug
the tree even more [laugh]
Adam: Are you a bit of a tree hugger?
Charity: Yeah, yeah, I am!
Adam: Do people spot you in Peckham? Strange woman hugging
trees?
Charity: I do sometimes do that, the weird thing is, this was, I
was in a different park in Lewisham, and I’d actually climbed the
tree because I just felt like it and I also had some lines to
learn. And it was quite an empty park and I thought well this is
fine, and I was in a tree learning my lines and a lady came and she
saw my bags on the floor and she was so freaked out she just looked
up and saw me in this tree, and I have to say it was a weird sight.
I have to really say
Adam: [Laugh]
Charity: This is so weird, I’m an actress and I don’t know what I’m
doing, sorry
Yeah, I just, yeah, I love…I think it was also, when I was growing
up, a bit of a place to kind of go and hide, you know if you’re
kind of stressed out or worried as a kid, and rather than run away,
go and climb a tree and be up really high – it completely changes
your perspective.
Adam: Has having a child changed your perspective at all?
Charity: I think it just strengthened my love of nature because
it’s the first thing that you teach kids about. All of the books
that people give you are all about spotting different animals and
trees, and the sunshine and the bees, everything he loves is
related to outdoors, I mean that’s, it’s his first summer, he’s
fifteen months old and erm I’ve moved to a new house recently and
been trying to work the garden a bit because it was very very
overgrown. So, it’s been my great pleasure to be outside and doing
lots of digging and his first proper words has been digging, dig,
dig, because he heard me say digging and he just started saying
dig, dig, dig. [Laugh]
Adam: Fantastic
Charity: He said that before mummy or daddy.
Adam: So, are you optimistic, I mean all those things you talked
about erm are you optimistic that the world for your child will
actually, things will get better during his early life? Or not?
Charity: I feel burdened with the worry of it, and I try to not
think about it, because the world is huge and there’s only so much,
I can do. I do feel optimistic in the human endeavour and human
invention and ingenuity. But I am sad that it’s going to get to a
point of huge environmental catastrophe before real change is made
by our governing bodies. But then if you look back at the pictures
just pre-industrial revolution of these thousands and thousands of
huge billowing chimney pots in London and you know, they’re not
there now, and the world is a lot greener than it was then, at
least in cities. So, I kind of, yeah, I have hope otherwise you
know… what’s the point?
Adam: I mean it’s interesting isn’t it, there’s… I often think
about how to shape the narrative here because I think often the
narrative of ecology and the environment is one of ‘there’s an
impending disaster’ you know ‘it’s all terrible’ and I’m not saying
that’s not true, but I think it’s hard for people to engage with
because it’s like ‘well what, what can I do about that?’ and I
think it was, hopefully, I got this right, I think it was Barrack
Obama who wrote a book on it called the Audacity of Hope and you
talked about hope and it is this sort of weird thing, actually to
be hopeful is an extraordinary thing, it is audacious to be hopeful
and that might be, might be a better message actually, that there
is this big challenge and actually the audacity of hope in what
can, can we do, individually? Individuals can make a difference.
You know yes joining the Trust and what have you, and doing other
things, and planting a single tree
Charity: I think you also have to look after yourself as a human in
the world. Try to give yourself time and love and energy. Then
you’ll be in a really good spot to be able to help other things and
other people and the environment. It’s very difficult like I say if
you’re on the breadline and you’re exhausted to actually have the
headspace and the energy to do stuff. And you know, and so those
people that are unable to do that we need to, I do believe,
socially we need to enable people to be able to care for the
environment. If you’re in a position where you do have enough
money, and you do have enough time, and you still feel worried,
then there’s tons you can do on a day-to-day level. And I actually
think that action is much more infectious than talking. I know
we’re talking here today, but the best thing that I have probably
ever done is about two or three years ago I just wrote on Twitter
I’m giving up plastic for the month of January, this was before it
was kind of fashionable to that and rather than saying everyone
should do this, everyone should do that, I just said ‘this is what
I’m doing’. I didn’t even talk about it. I just said ‘I’m gonna do
this’ and so many of my friend’s a couple of months later said ‘oo
you said that and actually, I tried it as well’, they didn’t even
talk to me about it they just kind of tried it. They started,
whenever they came over, they said ‘we I didn’t bring, I didn’t buy
any plastic because I knew you weren’t interested’ I thought wow!
You just actually have to put a stick in the mud sometimes and say
this is what I’m doing, and try to have the energy to stick to it,
and of course, we have… we can’t be perfect… the world is set up in
a certain way at the moment as consumers, as everything is wrapped
in plastic, it’s very difficult to get around without, you know in
lots of places, without a car because public transport has a lot to
be desired and it’s expensive, but if you can try to support things
that are doing the right thing, that will slowly, slowly build, and
if you can have joy in that, that builds as well.
Adam: It is interesting to me, we tend to do what our friends do,
or people we know do, so, and that’s why a single person can make a
difference isn’t it because, a friend will copy you. And suddenly
what you do isn’t a single thing, it’s a big thing.
That’s, that’s amazing.
So, look we’re in this park which is very nice. I’m not sure I’ve
met one leaf yet; we’re meant to be walking around and I lazily
dragged you to this chair! But, have you, I mean there’s lots of
Woodland Trust places outside of London, they are quite close but
also quite far. Have you been to many? Are there any that stick in
your mind?
Charity: I’ve been to Hainault, and I’ve been to Langley Vale. What
I would love to do is go to Scotland, I know there’s lots of work
happening there at the moment and I’d really like to visit, it’s
really interesting to see the difference between a very very
ancient woodland and something that’s quite newly developed, and I
know that there are some places that the Woodland Trust are trying
to connect two different forests, and I think, is it the pine
martin (?) that they are trying to get to, sort of, repopulate? And
it’s very difficult to do that because they like travelling and so
you have to have a long distance in between, you know, one dense
forest and another dense forest for them to actually want to stick
around. So, I would kinda like to see that in action.
Adam: Well, the Langley Vale Forest, I have just been to, and it
features in our previous podcast. All the commemoration of the
First World War. Which I think was one of the most interesting and
sort of, I don’t know, shocking, I don’t know, because there’s a
lot of… it commemorates really terrible events, but in a sort of,
living memory, which I thought was really forceful. And that’s I
think one of the more interesting podcasts so if you listen to this
one, but also that one, I also thought that one was great.
So, it’s amazing to sort of talk to you about this, but as you were
saying, you are an exceptionally busy actor as well, so you’re
doing… is The Great still in production?
Charity: It is, we’re filming season three at the moment.
Adam: Wow, so how many programmes in a season?
Charity: so, there’s ten episodes in each season, and the first two
have come out via Hulu, and, in America and STARZPLAY, the first
season was out on Channel 4 a couple of years ago and the second
season is coming out this summer, on Channel 4, and we’re filming
season three. So, um, it’s a lot of fun, it’s very silly and it was
lovely to be doing something, I was so lucky to be working during
the last lockdown, albeit with really rigorous Covid protocols in
place, we managed to get it done.
Adam: Well fantastic, I will watch out for the next season! And all
of your stuff on social media and everything. It’s been a real
pleasure talking to you Charity, thank you very much!
Charity: Thanks.
Well thanks to Charity for taking me on a tour of her local small,
wooded area in South London, and do remember if you want to find a
wood near you, well the Woodland Trust has a website to help. Just
go to woodlandtrust.org.uk/findawood. Until next time happy
wandering.
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