Dec 2, 2022
Join us for an episode of virtual time travel to visit Hatfield Forest, Essex and explore over 2,000 years of rich history. As we journey through this outdoor museum, we chat to Tom Reed, a Woodland Trust ancient tree expert, and Ian Pease, a National Trust ranger, who explain why the wildlife and cultural value of these trees makes them irreplaceable. Discover why ancient trees are so important, what makes a tree ancient, how people have lived and worked with them through the centuries and the urgent need to better protect them.
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Transcript
You are listening to Woodland Walks, a podcast for the Woodland Trust, presented by Adam Shaw. We protect and plant trees for people to enjoy, to fight climate change and to help wildlife thrive.
Adam: Well, today I am off to Hatfield Forest, which is the
best-preserved medieval hunting forest in Europe, which has a very
rich history stretching back, well, a very long time, some 2,000
years or so.
Now, the forest itself is actually managed by the National Trust,
but the Woodland Trust works very closely with them. In particular,
the reason I'm going there is to look at and talk about ancient
trees, their importance to people and landscape, and of course, how
old you have to be to be ancient.
Ian: My name is Ian Pease, and I’m one of the rangers here for the
National Trust at Hatfield Forest.
Adam: And so how long has your association been with this forest
then?
Ian: Well, it's getting on for 30 years.
Adam: You're looking good on it.
Ian: Thank you. Thank you. [Laughter]
Adam: That’s very cool. Now look I have met you by this
extraordinary, well, is it a tree or is it two trees? Inaudible
just describe where we are standing.
Ian: So, we are standing just to the left of the entrance road as
you come into the forest and this is a magnificent hornbeam, er and
although, like you say Adam, it looks like it's two trees it is
actually one.
Adam: How do you, how do you know?
Ian: Well, it's done what's called compartmentalise. So, what
happens when trees get to this age –and this tree is without a
doubt probably around 700 years old – is the heartwood falls away
and you're left…
Adam: The heartwood’s in the middle?
Ian: The heartwood, the heartwood in the centre falls away, and
what you’re left with is the living part of the tree, which is the
sapwood and what you can see there is that what trees do, trees are
very good at adapting when they get older. And they are generally
very good at adapting throughout their lives. So, what has happened
here is this tree has stabilised itself by compartmentalising, so
sealed off these two halves to stabilise itself and you can also
see what we call aerial roots starting to come down from the canopy
which gives the tree the rigidity and strength.
Adam: So, where is that? I can’t see, let’s have a look, what do
you mean?
Ian: Yeah, so let’s have a closer look.
Adam: I’ve never heard of aerial roots.
Ian: You can see these structures…
Adam: Yes, I see.
Ian: …these structures are what we call aerial roots.
Adam: Yeah, they do look like… but they're not in the ground,
they’re in the air. So where are they...? What function are they
serving?
Ian: Well, they’re basically supporting the tree and what's
happened here, this is an old pollard, so originally, they’d have
been what we call bowling in the top there, and the roots would
have gone down into that sort of composted material that was
captured in the bowling, and as that’s gradually fallen away that's
what you're left with at the top there.
Adam: So, these roots are supporting the tree as opposed to
bringing it nutrients or anything?
Ian: Well, they are supplying nutrients for it from this compost
material…
Adam: Oh, I see, which is still there.
Ian: You can still see some of it there. What's happened obviously
is as the trees aged, it's fallen through. Um and you can see the
compartmentalisation on the edges there. A sort of almost callous
effect.
Adam: Well, amazing, well look I gotta get a photo of you by this
which I will put on my Twitter account. Do you have a Twitter
account?
Ian: I haven't, but I’ve got Instagram and Facebook.
Adam: I’m sure we’ll put it on all of those things so you can see
what Ian is talking about. Fantastic, well look, this is just the
beginning. And you said it was the ancient way, the ancient tree
way? The road?
Ian: Er no this isn’t the ancient way. This is, this is the vehicle
accessway into the forest. But having said that Adam, there is
stagecoaches who used to travel from the east heading to Bishop…
sorry, heading down to London, would cut through Hatfield Forest to
cut out Bishop Stortford.
Adam: [laughter] Okay right. An ancient cut-through. There we
are.
Ian: That's it.
Adam: There we are. Not quite up-to-date traffic news, [laughter]
but if you're a time traveller, that's a bit of traffic news for
you. Look, my first visit here, we've come on an amazing day, I'm
very, very lucky. What would you suggest I look out for here?
Ian: Well certainly if you go for a walk through… what I, what I
sort of advise people to do is to go for a walk around the lake
area to start with because that way as you go down to the lake area
you go through the medieval landscape. And what’s nice about the
lake area is you’ve got the 1740s landscape, so that's the
Capability Brown heart to the forest. He was employed here in the
1740s before the National Trust had the forest. It was owned by the
Houblon family, and he developed, formed the lake down there and
built a shell house next to the lake. So, you could almost go on a
bit of a time travel, you know virtual time travel, by walking
through this wood pasture where we are now amongst these stunning
ancient trees. Take yourself into the 1740s and walk around the
lake and then and then go from there.
Adam: Brilliant. I'm heading off to the 1740s, what a fantastic bit
of map reading that will be. Thank you very much, Ian. Really,
really nice to see you.
Ian: You’re welcome, you’re welcome.
[Walking noise]
Adam: Well, I'm just walking out actually, into a bit of open field
here. Ooh look wild mushrooms… must avoid that. Don’t want to
trample on those. And beneath one of these trees is Tom from the
Woodland Trust, and he is going to be my guide to the rest of this
amazing forest.
[Walking noise]
Adam: So, Tom, I assume? Hi! What an amazing place, amazing place
isn’t it?
Tom: An amazing place Adam, hi, nice to meet you.
Adam: First of all, this is an unusual forest in terms of the
Woodland Trust because it's actually the National Trust, but you
sort of… this is a joint project or, explain the relationship? Why
this is different?
Tom: So, the National Trust and the Woodland Trust are both really
passionate about seeing the protection of ancient and veteran
trees, are interested in studying them and knowing where they
are.
So, when… we’re here today because the National Trust and the
Woodland Trust have been working together, well, for quite a few
years actually, we've been working together to map ancient and
veteran trees to our Ancient Tree Inventory.
And also, in the past year and a half, we've also been working with
the National Trust on a project called the Green Recovery Project,
which was a Challenge Fund that we, both organisations, were
working on. This was actually one of the sites, in fact, I was here
just six months ago where I got to see first-hand some of the
restoration work that was being done to some of these trees, some
of the historic pollarded hornbeams for example. We got to see how
they are now being managed and cared for here by the Trusts.
Adam: And it is an amazing place. I mean we're lucky to be here on
a great day. Oh! You can hear… we’re near Stansted, so you might
hear an airplane in the background there. Oh, but we've come out of
this lovely, sort of, bit of woodland into this amazing open area
here and it's, it does feel a very mixed sort of landscape doesn't
it?
Tom: Absolutely, I think if, if you're walking here with your dog
or just on a fun day out, you might just think to yourself ‘ah this
is a field or some nice trees here’. But actually, when you stop
and look around you can see these living links to the past, and
what we, walking through here is a medieval landscape where you've
got a mixture of ancient trees, we can see some decaying oaks in
the background over there. We’ve actually just walked past some
large hornbeam pollards. So, these are trees that were working
trees, hundreds of years ago that were managed as part of this
landscape to provide timber for those who manage them, worked and
lived in the area. So, to be able to walk past trees like that and,
you know, to touch them – these living monuments – is just a real
privilege.
Well, we've got a mix here, we've got a mix of young trees, mature
trees, ancient trees, and this area that we're stood on now is
called, referred to as wood pasture because it was historically a
wood landscape, where you had both a mix of livestock agriculture
and also tree management as well.
Adam: Well look, it's amazing just to our left there's two lovely
trees, and I… I don't know what they are… but they're so lovely two
people have stopped to take photos of them and I mean just a
measure of how beautiful some of these, this landscape is. What…
just a quick test… do you happen to know what that tree is?
Tom: Yeah. So, we've got two, sort of, mature hawthorns there, so
erm elsewhere in the forest there are actually some much older
hawthorns… we have some ancient hawthorns here that would be
several hundred years old. These are probably mature, probably over
100–150 years old…
Adam: And they got lovely sort of red, red splattering over them.
It just looks like someone's painted that, it's quite, quite an
amazing sight. So, you talk about ancient trees. So what? What
classifies a tree as ancient then? Because if [laugh] these were
young and they’re like 100 or something. So, what’s ancient
exactly?
Tom: So, it's a great question. So ancient trees are those that are
in their third and final life stage essentially. So, the sort of,
the age at which we call different species ancient is different
because different species have different life expectancies, and
they have different growth rates.
So, for example, if we look at yew trees, we make all those ancient
from around about 400 to 500 years plus. If we look at hawthorn,
for example, we would say they’re probably ancient from around
about 200 years of age. So, it does vary depending on which species
you are referring to, but essentially the ancient phases, the third
and final life stage… and very few trees actually live old enough
to become ancient.
It's only sites like this where the trees have been retained where,
you know, these trees not been disturbed, they've not been felled,
there's been no development here. So, these trees have survived in
the landscape and been allowed to survive and that's why we can
enjoy them today. So yeah, that's what an ancient tree is.
Adam: And I mean, obviously there's almost a sentimental reason
you, you don't want to destroy something which is 700 years old.
But from an environmental perspective, do ancient trees offer the
environment, do they offer animals something more than a younger
tree does?
Tom: Absolutely. I mean, I like to think of ancient trees as being
like a living oasis for wildlife essentially. So, these are areas
where you've got a huge variety of habitats both, you know, within
like the tree structure, in the roots, in the canopy, even within
like the heartwood and the hollows. So, ancient trees offer huge
benefits for wildlife.
Adam: But sorry, you're saying that's more… a 700-year-old tree
would offer more environmental benefits than a 100-year-old tree.
Is that what you're saying?
Tom: Yeah, if you are comparing trees of the same species.
Adam: So why is that? What is happening in that period that offers
that benefit then?
Tom: So, the reason really is owed to the decaying wood habitat. So
as a tree ages, you get natural decay that's often caused by
special heart rot fungi that can decay the tree. So, as it’s
standing it’s decaying slowly over time, and by – that decaying
wood – it kind of creates a load of microhabitats, so you get huge
benefits for invertebrates. In fact, the site we’re on today is one
of the top ten sites in the UK for rare invertebrates because of
the decaying wood habitats that are here.
If you imagine a decaying tree with hollows and cavities and water
pockets… imagine if you're an invertebrate, you know, you’re such a
small organism and you've got this huge ancient tree with all this
variety of habitats. I mean you've essentially got… your whole
world is in this tree, it's a whole universe of habitats. So,
that’s why they’re important.
Adam: So, it’s quite poetic, isn't it? In its decay… the very fact
it’s decaying offers new life.
Tom: Absolutely, exactly. So, they become, you know, just… they
just transform into these oases for wildlife and it’s owing to the
decaying habitats that they have.
Adam: And what's the oldest trees that you've got around here
then?
Tom: Yeah. Well, so some of these trees may well be in excess of
700 to 800 years of age.
Adam: And are they yew? Because yew trees tend to last the longest
don’t they?
Tom: Yeah. So, a lot of the oldest trees on this site will be
pollards. So pollarding is where you cut the branches of a tree
above head height. This was a historic, sort of, tree management
practice – essentially the people who used to live and work here
wanted to farm their livestock, and in order to make sure that they
didn't, sort of, graze on the trees that they also used to harvest
timber from, they were able to cut the tree above head height,
typically above two metres in height. And what that does is quite
two things. For the people managing these trees, it means that they
can easily harvest the timber because in absence of power tools…
imagine they were using hand tools and as the tree gets cut back it
regrows into sort of finer, smaller stems that can be more easily
harvested.
Adam: And that’s the sign of pollarding, isn’t it? If you're a tree
detective and you see these, sort of, small stems all coming up
it’s a sign it’s been a pollarded tree.
Tom: Absolutely, typically it will have, like, a fluted form cut
around about two metres at head height and you'll see like a
typical pollard knuckle, which is where you see all of these stems
converging on the same point.
But pollarding does actually bring some benefits to the tree as
well and that's why some of the oldest trees here will be pollards
because it has the effect of almost stabilising the tree. It means
that the tree doesn't get too top-heavy and then collapses and
dies. Instead, it keeps the trees more typically smaller and if
they’re regularly cut that keeps the tree in that stable form.
So even the sort of the trees here which are, you know, extremely
hollow, they look like, you know, how are they even still standing,
because, like, what’s supporting them? Because they're being
managed as pollards.
And then, you know, there are some sites where pollarding has
stopped, you know, for example at Burnham Beeches is a site where
you can see a lot of the pollards have not been pollarded for a
long time and they’ve started to become top-heavy now, so and that
presents a risk that you get greater wind loading and then they
fall.
So going back to what we were talking about the Green Recovery
project that we are working on with the National Trust. And like I
said, I was here six months ago, and we got to see some of the tree
management here and we got to see some pollarding essentially. So,
they were sort of cutting back the… some branches in the canopy to
basically continue the pollarding management to try and replicate
what was being done hundreds of years ago to make sure that these
trees can survive for many years to come.
Adam: Amazing that. Ian. Ian promised me some time travel. He
pointed me towards the Capability Brown landscape. Do you know
which way that is?
Tom: Yeah, that would be straight back down the track.
Adam: I was going to say, it’s going the other way. Okay, but do
you think we should head this way first?
Tom: Yeah. Well, I mean, we can. We can go.
Adam: I'm going with you. I'm going with you and will… I'm
definitely going to see the Capability Brown later, but you lead me
on.
Tom: We can certainly make our way back there.
Adam: So, tell me about where we're heading.
Tom: So now we're just, we're walking through a sort of former
medieval landscape. So, we've got a variety of trees here, we've
got some oaks, we've got hawthorns, we've got field maples, we’ve
got hornbeams. And if we’re walking here, we can just see the sheer
variety of trees in the landscape.
So, when I'm walking through this landscape and I can't help but
think about, you know, the people who were working here and living
here and the way that this, the site, was managed. We can hear
overhead planes are leaving Stansted Airport and I can only imagine
what those people would have thought about that [laugh]. And it
just, it just makes you think about the changes that this landscape
has seen. And erm obviously the reason that we have ancient trees
here is because this part of the landscape has remained unchanged.
So, whilst there's been a lot of change around this site, this area
has survived and that's ultimately enabled these trees to survive
as well.
Adam: Now you look after a lot of woodland. What separates this
from lots of the other things that you've got an association
with?
Tom: So, I suppose what's really interesting about this site is
that it's a former forest and then when we think about forests,
people typically think about trees and they probably picture
woodland, but actually…
Adam: That’s fair enough, isn’t it?
Tom: It’s fair enough, but forest actually has a very different
meaning in terms of the medieval sense. So, a forest was
essentially an area of land that was subject to special hunting
laws and these new areas were preserved really for the royals and,
well, the royals and their sort of associates to hunt deer and
enjoy riding through the landscape and they liked this kind of open
landscape where the trees were kind of scattered. So, when you
think of forests, like people typically think of dense woodland,
but actually, it's more like this. It’s big trees in a sort of
sparse landscape where deer are allowed to run around, and the
royals could be… were there on horseback sort of chasing them and
hunting them. It was sort of a sport for them. And in a lot of
sense, the commoners, if you like, were kept away from sites like
this. An erm, but then the kind of, the legacy has been
preserved.
Adam: And it's interesting, isn't it, that because we think of
these as natural places, they are natural places, that's what's
important about them. But they're not unmanaged. It's not like the
hand of man has not had a role in shaping this has very much been a
man-made, a man-shaped environment. Is that fair?
Tom: That's absolutely fair, yes. If I was… what’s interesting when
we look at ancient tree distribution more generally, there is a
clear link between humans and where ancient trees are. So, for
example, you might find ancient yew trees often in a churchyard
setting, coz often…, well, ancient yews were respected by sort of
earlier civilizations, the early Christians, even before that, the
Druids respected ancient yews, which is why they've kind of been
retained and associated with places of religious worship, you know,
so there's always those kind of links between where humans have
been and where ancient trees are now. And it just shows that really
throughout history we’ve respected our trees, you know, other
civilizations and cultures have respected these trees and you know,
now we need to respect them too and continue their legacy.
Adam: And I suppose one of the things that’s striking for me is
that although we are near Stansted, although it hasn't taken me
long to drive from London, as far as you can see, you can't see
anything. It's sort of trees for as far as you can see. It’s a
remarkable oasis in a rather heavily developed part of the UK.
Tom: Absolutely. You know, to be able to come to this site only
like an hour away from London is quite remarkable really, that
places like this have survived. It's like a living outdoor museum
almost. You know, you can go up to some of these trees, put your
hand on them and these were the same trees that were being worked
on over 500 years ago. You know… how many elements of nature can
you say that about? You know, it’s a remarkable privilege to be
able to go and visit trees like that. That were managed hundreds of
years ago.
Adam: OK, now there is a suitable bench almost shaped fallen
branch, so maybe we can head over there for a sit down and a
chat.
Tom: Sounds good. Hey, got some good sort of… at the top of the
tree there, you’ve got something called retrenchment which is
basically where the tree is dying back essentially.
Adam: Right.
Tom: So, over time like the canopy sort of reorganises itself. And
then the tree kind of grows downward eventually. So, trees don't
grow infinitely up and up and up, they tend to get… they die down
and they get broader over time.
Adam: So that's the sign of a change in its lifestyle… life stage
sorry?
Tom: Absolutely.
Adam: So, we can see some sort of dead branches at the top that
means it's coming into another stage, it's probably going to
thicken out a bit.
Tom: Exactly. Yeah. So, what I mean… what's happening essentially
as the tree reaches a sort of theoretical maximum size… eventually,
the tree can't transport that water from the roots. That kind of
hydraulic action becomes limited. It can't pump water to the very
top of the tree and so it, kind of, stops investing in those
branches. It’s grown to a good height, it doesn't need to compete
with other trees around it, so it starts to reorganise itself. And
those branches at the top start to die back and instead the tree
invests in some of those like low… what were lower branches and
they become more dominant, and the tree becomes broader in profile.
The trunk becomes much wider as well. So, it’s a typical sign of an
ancient tree that they will typically have a large girth for their
species. Like the trunk will have a large circumference for its
species. That’s like a key sign.
Adam: Alright, look, this isn't… I can't quite sit on this one, but
this is a very very pleasant place to stop. So, one of the big
projects from the Woodland Trust is this Ancient Tree Inventory and
I think you’re sort of… you're in charge of that. So, what is that?
Why is it important?
Tom: So, the Ancient Tree Inventory is a citizen science project.
So it’s something that anyone can take part in and essentially what
it seeks to do is to map ancient, veteran and notable trees across
the UK to an online interactive map that everyone can, sort of,
see, use, and enjoy. It started as a project called the Ancient
Tree Hunt and essentially it was just to get ancient trees on the
radar really, to get people inspired by them, to get people out
there recording them. And in that project alone they mapped over
100,000 trees.
But since then, it continued under the name of the Ancient Tree
Inventory, and we're continuing to map trees on a daily basis. So,
we have a network of volunteers around the UK who are more expert
volunteers who are called verifiers, and what they are doing is
going out and checking trees that members of the public have added.
So, if people have been on a walk and have seen a big tree or a
tree that looks like it's old – might be ancient, might be veteran
– they add it to the map, that gets recorded as an unverified tree
and then one of our volunteer verifiers comes along, they’ll visit
the tree and they’ll assess whether they think it’s an ancient tree
or a veteran or a notable. They'll also maybe take some extra
measurements of the tree, they’ll check that it's been recorded in
the right place and that the species has been identified correctly,
things like that.
Essentially what we're trying to do with the Ancient Tree
Inventory, as well as raising awareness about ancient and veteran
trees, is also, erm, our role in terms of research and
understanding their current distribution. But also, from their
protection point of view, the Ancient Tree Inventory is actually a
really useful resource for the likes of people doing environmental
impact assessments. So, we get a lot of requests for data from
ecological consultants, from arboriculture consultants, even the
local authorities that want to know where are the most significant
ancient and veteran trees in their county or on a particular site,
so that that can then be used to help inform, you know, planning
decisions and, you know, we'd like to think that that is going to
grow more that when, for example, there's a development or, you
know, some sort of proposed change to an area that people will
consult the Ancient Tree Inventory and they'll consider, sort of,
changing plans if ancient or veteran trees are going to be harmed.
We really just want to make sure that there is no loss… further
loss of ancient and veteran trees essentially.
Adam: And what sort of protection do ancient trees have? Do they
have… like a listed building you get listed protection so you can't
mess around with it. You can't knock it down, can't alter it. Does
a 700-year-old tree get the same protection as a 700-year-old piece
of brick?
Tom: Well, I'm afraid to say the answer to that is no. So, none of
the ancient trees, don't have any legal protection in the UK. As
you say, some of our most treasured monuments and buildings benefit
from scheduled monument status, but for ancient trees which may be
of, at least the same age if not older, they don't have any
protection.
In fact, I remember on a recent visit to a churchyard where we went
to see a really remarkable ancient yew tree, I think someone
jokingly said at the time that the wood in the beams of that church
are probably more protected than the wood in the trunk of that
ancient yew tree. And that, kind of, really opened my mind to that
whole debate on making that comparison between built heritage
monuments and ancient trees. And we really want to see ancient
trees be more considered as features of our cultural heritage,
archaeological heritage, you know, they really are these living
monuments and we need to look after them.
Adam: Do you get a sense that public opinion is swinging in that
direction to support ancient trees?
Tom: Yeah, I think it is. I mean, you know, based on my role of
working on the Ancient Tree Inventory, I've the fortune of speaking
to members of the public about their ancient trees. And we do get
lots of concern expressed to the Woodland Trust about, you know,
what's happening to ancient and veteran trees in their area.
But there is actually something that we're doing at the moment at
the Trust which is our Living Legends campaign that launched
earlier this year. So, we're actually making an attempt to gain
stronger protection for ancient and veteran trees. We have a
petition that's live at the moment and the campaign has a lot of
different activities happening at the moment, but one of the
headline things anyone can do is sign our petition where we're
calling for stronger legal protection, for that to be reflected in
policy so that there is basically legal protection to stop any harm
to the trees.
Adam: Okay. So, if someone's interested in being a volunteer and,
sort of, adding to that inventory, how do they go about it?
Tom: Yeah, so anyone can take part in the Ancient Tree Inventory.
All they need to do is go to the Ancient Tree Inventory website
where they’ll be able to register, and they'll be able to create a
free account. Essentially that means that when you sign into your
account, you can just record the trees. The main things that you'll
need to record are things like, you know, where the tree is so you
take like a grid reference. Erm, if you can record the girth of the
tree – so, this is the circumference of the tree – of the trunk
itself…
Adam: So, you need a long tape measure?
Tom: Yeah, we typically suggest having a tape measure around about
10 metres where you can often get like a surveyor’s tape from your
local hardware store for example. And you can measure the trunk,
normally about one and a half metres from ground level for
consistency. You’re really looking for the narrowest girth of this
trunk. So, if the tree has like a big, sort of, burr, or if there's
like a low hanging branch, then just record underneath it to try
and get the narrowest measurement. So that… and that's essentially
the most technical elements. If you can just record as well the
species of the tree, whether it's on public or private land, do
make sure to record some photos as well.
The key things that we’re really interested in looking at with a
tree when we’re assessing whether it’s ancient or veteran is our
veteran features or decay features. So, these are the kind of
decaying wood habitats, for example, if the tree is hollowing, if
the tree has decaying branches… so the tree behind me here has some
deadwood in the top of the crown – this is what we call
retrenchment. And any other kind of deadwood cavities, water
pockets, holes, that sort of thing is all great to capture, both in
the record itself, but also in the images too.
Obviously, the more that people can tell us about trees, the more
we know. And then it makes it a much more valuable resource. So, we
always encourage people to submit as much information as they
can.
Adam: And if I mean like me, I'm very bad at spotting tree types.
If you don't, if you see an old tree and you think I wanna record
that, but I don't know what sort of tree it is, is that a problem
or can you just go look, here's a photo, you’ll probably know
better than I do?
Tom: Yeah. So, it is possible to record the species as unsure. It
might be that you know that it's an oak, but you're not sure if
it’s pedunculate or sessile, so you can just record it as oak. We
have a network of volunteer verifiers who are sort of ancient tree
experts who will check…
Adam: Check your homework for you.
Tom: Yeah, exactly.
Adam: And if you can't spot the tree type, there is actually a
Woodland Trust app, isn't there?
Tom: Yeah, that's right Adam, we have a… the Woodland Trust has a
species identification app that you can use as well. The good thing
is that for our ancient trees, most of the time they are actually
native. So, the common native species are typically going to be,
you know, oaks, beech, ash, hornbeam, yew trees. So, you know,
these are species that most people are quite familiar with cause
they tend to be native.
Adam: We should do a podcast on that, sort of, how to spot the top
five native UK trees. An idea for another podcast… you may be
dragged back into this. Fantastic.
Tom: Sounds good.
[Pause]
Adam: So, we've been walking through a beautiful sort of woodland
glade, a very covered area. And what is typical of this particular
site is that you do come out into so many different landscapes and
so we've come out into this very open area, all of a sudden with
this extraordinarily large lake. I think there's something
suspiciously like a tearoom next door which might attract my
attention in a moment… and a couple of seats finally to sit
down.
So, Tom, now… It's a beautiful place. I mean we’re, we’re... The
weeds rustling in the wind, framing the lake in front of us…
There’s some ducks and some rowing boats and this is a wonderful
place. But I… the feature here is ancient woodland, so is there a
way of sort of measuring the value of a particular tree? Do you… is
it very just sort of thumb in the air, sort of thing, in the wind…
or is there a more scientific approach you can take?
Tom: Yeah, I think there are lots of ways in which different people
value their ancient trees and so one acronym we tend to use to
capture, sort of, the main themes of why we value our ancient
trees, can be thought of as ABC. So that stands for aesthetic
value, biological value and cultural value.
There is also historical value, which I'll talk about in a moment,
but think about, sort of, aesthetic value and why our ancient trees
are important, you know, can you imagine, sort of, walking through
the landscape that we're walking today without the ancient trees?
They do provide, like the character of this site, you know, walking
and seeing these big hollowing living monuments – they’re almost
like sculptures. And, you know, not just on these sorts of sites,
but if you think of what would our churchyards look like without
our ancient yews? Or what would our hedgerows look like without
those old hawthorn trees? Or what would our, sort of, the Highlands
of Scotland look like without those, kind of remarkable lone
standing-proud alders, and rowans and hollies that are like really
typical of that landscape? So, because ancient trees form, like, a
really important part of the overall character of our landscape
that's one way in which we value them.
The other way, of course, is biologically, so they provide immense
habitat variety for wildlife and a single tree can support
thousands of species and that’s owing to the decaying wood habitats
that they have. So as a tree ages it naturally hollows, starts to
break down, you get hollowing in the branches, in the trunk, you
get hollowing around the base of the tree – what we call
buttressing. All of these create pockets and habitats and even
microhabitats for wildlife, so it can be used by a range of
organisms from birds to reptiles, to mammals like squirrels,
badgers. For example, with birds, as well, owls will use them, they
will actually use the cavities found in the canopies of ancient
trees, they make their nests. Same for woodpeckers, which will use
decaying wood to make their nests and bore for invertebrates. And
of course, the invertebrates themselves – the opportunities
provided to invertebrates by ancient trees is remarkable. There’s a
special term to describe invertebrates that depend on decaying
wood, and that word is saproxylic. So, saproxylic invertebrates are
those which depend on this decaying wood for a part of their life
cycle.
And then there is also the cultural value that we place on our
ancient trees.
Adam: So, that’s the C.
Tom: That’s the C in our ABC.
Adam: So, tell me about the cultural values. Now actually… that
must be a hard thing to measure?
Tom: Absolutely so, it’s not always clear, in fact, that some trees
you may walk past and not know that that tree has been, or you know
what it's seen in its life and how other people in the past have
interacted with it. For example, ancient trees in the churchyards,
so it is often that you find ancient yew trees linked with former
sites of religious worship because the… our early ancestors, the
druids, and the sort of, early Christians had a… they saw,
essentially, ancient yew trees as a deity, they worshipped them,
they respected them. And as a result, those ancient yews persisted
in that landscape.
Adam: The cultural aspect, there's a cultural aspect, but there is
also, it doesn't run from the alphabet [inaudible] ABC H, there’s
an H isn’t there? A historical reference here, because these trees
have been around for 700 years, 1000 years – kings and queens will
have wandered under these trees, important decisions would have
been made. Historic really, really historic decisions would be
made. And under the boughs of these trees.
Tom: Absolutely. And so, there are some trees around UK which we
refer to as heritage trees that have… that we know have bared
witness to some important historical moments. Or that well-known
historical figures that visited those trees. For example, we have
the Queen Elizabeth Oak or we have the Tolpuddle Martyrs’ Tree
which is thought to bear witness to the start of the trade union
movement in the 1800s, and we have the Ankerwycke Yew that bared
witness to the signing of the Magna Carta by King John, under that
very tree. And it’s still there today, a tree that is over 2,000
years old has, you know, such important historical values –
irreplaceable in fact. That is probably the one word that we would
like people to associate with trees – is the word irreplaceable.
Because if that tree was to be lost, you would lose all of that
historical reference.
Adam: Fantastic. You know this site well, I mean you've come a long
way to see me today, so I'm super pleased and very grateful for the
guide. But I know you love this place, don’t you?
Tom: Absolutely. I need no excuse to come here. I think it just
feels like walking back in history essentially. And there’s just an
amazing variety of trees. Yeah, I could just spend the whole week
here.
Adam: I think my family might miss me in a week, but who knows?
They might not… they might not notice. But they’re certainly not
going to notice for the rest of day, so I'm going to take the rest
of the day here. Thank you very much.
Well, my thanks to Ian from the National Trust and Tom from the
Woodland Trust but most of all, I suppose, thanks to you for
listening. Now do remember if you want to find a wood near you,
well, the Woodland Trust has a website to help. Just go to
woodlandtrust.org.uk/findawood. Now you can find a wood near you.
Well, until next time, happy wandering.
Thank you for listening to the Woodland Trust Woodland Walks. Join us next month when Adam will be taking another walk in the company of Woodland Trust staff, partners, and volunteers and don't forget to subscribe to the series on iTunes, or wherever you're listening to us, and do give us a review and a rating.
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